Here's a debate I'm looking forward to watching - Robert Sungenis Vs Jame White "Is the Pope infallible?" Sungenis is a rather able Catholic apologist who has done a series or two for EWTN, and James White is an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church and is broadly recognized as one of the most able debaters in this context. Having exchanged a few e-mails with him, I'll say he's sharp but he has a tendency to selectively edit. Take for example his use of St. Athanasius as a proto-Protestant who believed firmly in Sola Scriptura. It might be credible if you only listened to him, but then you read St. Athanasius and find statements like the following about the Blessed Virgin Mary:

O noble Virgin, truly you are greater than any other greatness. For who is your equal in greatness, O dwelling place of God the Word? To whom among all creatures shall I compare you, O Virgin? You are greater than them all. O [Ark of the New] Covenant, clothed with purity instead of gold! You are the Ark in which is found the golden vessel containing the true manna, that is, the flesh in which divinity resides. Should I compare you to the fertile earth and its fruits? You surpass them. . . . If I say that heaven is exalted, yet it does not equal you. . . . If we say that the cherubim are great, you are greater than they, for the cherubim carry the throne of God, while you hold God in your hands.

—St. Athanasius, quoted by L.Gambero in Mary and the Fathers of the Church (Ignatius Press, 1999), pp. 106-7

Either James White should agree that the Bible teaches that Mary is the Ark of the New Covenant (with the immaculate conception and perpetual virginity flowing naturally therefrom) or St. Athanasius categorically didn't believe Sola Scriptura (contrary to the quote-mining of Mr. White). I simply don't see another way to see it. If it's claimed that St. Athanasius was inconsistent in his application of Sola Scriptura...I suppose the same could be said of every other Catholic. Heh heh. Silly defense. But that's Sola Scriptura, not Papal Infallibility...

In any case, the debate is about 180 minutes long, so have a seat and grab a soda.




6 comments so far:
    Jeff Miller May 6, 2008 at 5:18 PM , said...

    Robert Sungenis was an able apoligist until he went off the deep end into anti-semitism and his battle over his bishop about this. Robert Sungenis also believes in Geocenttricism and has offered an award to anybody who can prove against it. He has even linked to articles from white supremicist articles.

     
    Catholic Audio May 6, 2008 at 10:15 PM , said...

    Yeah...I said the same thing last time I brought him up, but I just didn't want to get into it again.

    In any case, glad to see you're still checking in now and then, Jeff!

    God Bless,
    Ryan

     
    Anonymous May 7, 2008 at 9:06 PM , said...

    Ok, can someone please clarify Sungenis' comment in his closing remarks:

    "...because they used a Pope to condemn another Pope who had preached a heresy..."

    With so many names bandied about, which Pope preached a heresy, and which Pope corrected him? And I thought a Pope COULD NOT preach heresy due to his infallibility? I'm confused.

    Thank you.

     
    Maureen May 21, 2008 at 2:35 PM , said...

    I hate to say it, but if you're going to link to Sungenis' pre-loony work, you're probably going to have to mention it every time.

    It's like quoting Tertullian. You have to say whether it was from his regular orthodox period or his Montanist, sadly mistaken one.

     
    Anonymous October 10, 2009 at 6:53 PM , said...

    Sungenis still is an able apologist. His book "Not by Faith Alone" is the Gold Standard on Christian soteriology.
    No matter what he believes about literal creation and geocentrism, he is still firmly obedient to the Church and the Pope.
    I like the idea that he challenges some of the wishy washy bishops. He even forced the USCCB to retract the false statement that the Covenant with the Jews was still in effect - an attempt at false eccumenism.
    Calling him an anti-semite without any real proof is dangerous.
    People just don't like confrontation, but we should always seek truth, no matter the cost.

     
    denzkyy July 22, 2010 at 6:40 PM , said...

    here's the latest debate of Robert Sungenis against Anti-Catholic Matt Slick!

    http://www.catholicintl.com/index.html

    debate topics include Assumption of Mary, Church Authority And Justification...

    listen how Robert Sungenis demolished Matt Slick in his own radio Show!

    Robert Sungenis is still one of the ablest and best Catholic Apologists we have!

     

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